This 'rather emotional' (?!) statement was removed by (if I'm correct) ivm135.ivm.vu.nl from the main (c2) wiki , which is the university which recently has started a imam (moslim 'pastor'..., see e.g. here in english) education, wheras normally dutch ordained ministers normally don't even get university education... And seriously, there are low rated universities in Holland, but this is close to the pits.

Rational I however, come from the highest rated technical university in the same country, and AM graduated (as Electrical Engineer), and THINK I wrote down relevant, and especially: verifiable information.

I'm dutch by birth, born and raised in the gouvernment city (the Hague) went to school at walking distance from the parliament, and have been in amsterdam for years, and my only conclusion about the last decades is that holland has become evil, bad, fascist as hell, and deserves to get returned what they invest in. I was in various other european countries, also recently, and nowhere at all the atmosphere is so pressing and the control and scrutiny so prevalent, and lets say the hypocracy as straining as in the netherlands. Not in Germany (west and mid and sounth) not in belgium, not in luxembourg, not in france (countryside or paris) not in switserland, and not even amoung the english people I knew. And (much longer ago) certainly not in Spain and england at the time, not even just over the border in east germany, and probably not in Milan (Italy) either.

The dutch are known for their scroogyness, for non-dutchman usually a pretty low-ranking qualification (a dutch person might take it as a positive characteristic). Double dutch means mainly that the intended party isn't very free-giving. Like dutch treat, where everytbody brings their own stuff to a party. Yuck.

When the nation came into existence and when the constitution was formed, it was a fairly decent (how decent are nations in general...), protestant, free, trading, well known sailing and world wide settling, fairly rich (because of indonesian colonies, too). Vibrant, alive, grand and such things were left to the french and others, but that isn't bad per definition. In second world war, I'm sure the resistance was serious and the disapproval with the nazis sincere.

Though recently a well known paper resurfaced statistics about jews-in-hiding susrvival rates overal were of a record low compared to other countries.

The north holland province, where Amsterdam is situated since decades is known for housing the heads of world wide satanism, as in seriously evil worship of the devil. As if that isn't bad enough, the world wide, Rome sponsored, historically thouroughly hated head jesuit (the 'superiour general' http://www.jesuit.org/old_site/jesuit.org/jcosim/about_us/hans_kolvenbach_letter.html) for many years already is a dutchman .

The last few years have brough machine gun killings in brought day light, a killing of a to-be minister president of a succesfull new fascistoid party on electrion night, by being shot in the head in broad daylight, killings (probably in criminal circuits) of more than a few others by shooting, in daytime, recently even the owner of a bikestore (to death), child victims of ritual exorcism (dead), and God knows even more. Not that I mind very much per se, or even necessarily find it very negative when certain beings cease to exist, I wouldn't mind personally putting a bullet in Hitlers head... But anyhow, crime rates I would not like to bring to public attention.

One of the main raisons d'čtre for the dutch nation has always been trade, which since the colonies became independent is done importantly by the world's first or second largest harbour city, rotterdam, which is conveniently located at the mouth of a major river leading to german industrial area.

The dutch are known as a double image of the tradesman and the preacher, which is hardly a nice qualification, it means they always have their finger raised to tell others how to do things, unless opportunism surfaces to make some profitable trade. 'Gezelligheid' sort of translatable by coziness can easily be hypocritical as hell.

And about crime: I remember well from highschool lessons that (also?) in Holland, 1/3 of the women are abused before they are mature. How about that for the crime picture.

Some years ago, and then also some time before that, there has been major media attention for abuse victims, first a little village where never it was realy admitted what people were acused of and the whole things as I remember ended by getting nothing actually done because of fear of the chain reaction or because all that would happen is that aledgedly abused children and their families would become public displays. More recently there has been a girl, whose book I read, who was very severely abused physically and emotionally, and who got in the news by getting her parents behind prison bars, which I think for a large part was due to her own drive or willpower. Lets say a sort of dutroux but the his surviving victims would have to want very much to press changes. All to horrible for me to think about all too much.

The book of that girl mentioned that her town (epe at the time) for about half or so was part of the circuit of people who abused her, so that anyhow she lived in hell anyway, with hardly anywhere to run. Except maybe very remotely. I'm sure Amsterdam isn't better, and that is on top of life being hard enough there allready if you don't want to get badly betrayed to anything evil enough within a year or two.

Try to be an honourable enough, reasonable, or alive person in a country like that.

How many nuclear warhead medium and long distance missiles were there again, in the world? Twice 20.000 ? Well well.

They weren't allowed in holland. The motto in the early 80 I seem to remember was 'all nuclear weapons out of the world, to begin with from holland'. Not very realistic. It would be possible to misplace a few at some point, of course. Lets say in sharp mode, after ample warning. On colision course...

Remember scebreniza were the dutch fucked up bad 'arranging' things, causing the death of many people, and needing help of other parties? Not that the europeans in general would be able to do much of significance in their own continent, for instance military organizationwise, but in international intervention the dutch were an absolute low. There were just a few essential (photo) films of important events in that context. They happened to get 'misplaced' or developed wrong or something at the time. Yeah right.

And politically speaking, the shortest description is fascist. I remember that in a time when a at the time fellow student of mine had gone to microsoft seattle, someone got fired there because, as the press message stated 'he wasn't enough of a nazi'. Sort of a joke, of course. Well, holland isn't big enough to let the nazis get to enough power, basically, the same ideas seem to rule way to much as did in times of the rise of nazism and fascism.

The political arena has only one party I could and can agree with, a moderate party except in its official statutes which strive for political renewal and environmental improvement, called democrats 66 (my birthyear), the rest is getting near textbook examplitude of stagnating middle class ambitions breeding fascist life attitude. It's a dreadfull sight to see the political ongoings, for instance via live internet.

There has been no stability, a rediculous mammies boy as president (which of course isn't necessarily bad or worse than lets say blair), who recently in the usually rather diplomatic or ambigous european communion got accusation that he and the dutch were poisoning relationships... Their 'superiorly oriented' attitude during recent visits to america were accurately renounced. Luckily.